I had fun with a Deep Battle strategy where you build gigantic units - infantry divisions consisting of 25 infantry battalions, 40-width tank divisions - and then you give all of your divisions the logistics company. Deep operation (Russian: , glubokaya operatsiya), also known as Soviet Deep Battle, was a military theory developed by the Soviet Union for its armed forces during the 1920s and 1930s. Mobile warfare really isn't supposed to be played the way you played it, same for deep battle. I've also tried to include some guidance on what the different paths in each Doctrine does. In spite of its start as the strongest. Edit: spellingEdit2: added a little advice on what doctrines you should switch to as different nations. It sucks a lot. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Give your nation a unique edge: Experience the flexible technology system, where all major powers get their own unique identity. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. To share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Development! A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Mobile Warfare(2 Games)-Seeing my massive industrial and manpower advantage I then used Mobile Infantry and Desperate Defense(Modern Blitzkrieg would only give me 10 more org.) Oh and on a final note the +5% Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps. Sorry, Blitzkrieg, but Mobile Infantry is just overall better. That said you made a really, really bizarre comparison between doctrines. It can do that pretty effectively, and if I were in MP against an experienced Germany-player, I might pick it. Dmitry Perov, 31, was 'liquidated' by . Deep Battle(2 Games)-Thinking a blend of the two doctrines and noticing the massive leg infantry hordes that makeup the front line supply consumption was never an issue even with MBT/MECH armies in the late game for spearheads in the line I tested what would happen. Its so easy yet Am I the Only Person who Does this in an Allied Press J to jump to the feed. Mass Assault. Org was worse compared to almost everything else aswell. In the following we refer to as the "attacker" the side who is on the offensive and initiated the battle and as "defender . Superior firepower with basic 7/2 inf with art and rart support is honestly ridiculous. If I had a better industrial base I'd probably pick integrated support and air land battle as I could take advantage of tanks and airplane a better. Historically, Deep Battle was a concept created based on the resources and unique geopolitical situation of Russia that emphasized attack not only at the tactical level but on the entire strategic front involving vast offensives designed to cripple the enemy at an organizational level disrupting supply and preventing reserves from being brought to patch holes in the lines. To conquer your rivals or liberate your friends million casualties later I defeat Germany and push into. 378X3 ) that and NKVD though. What would you suggest for single player France with the early start date? At best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle. +48 hour low supply grace period (96 hrs total). Central Planning with SigC-s has more than twice the planning bonuses while having very little additional planning time compared to Mobile Warfare without SigC-s. and our sortie_efficiency = 0.3: Percentual. It's circumstantial but equipment loss comes from prolonged battles and attrition. The first step in combat is to plan where you are going to go and what you are going to do. Combat takes place with one province attacking another at 80 width. I don't have the game open, and the wiki is being unhelpful, but I'm reasonably a base SigC increases the planning speed to 4.5%/day (meaning, 45% planning bonus after 10 days), and the SigC upgrades increase this by an additive +3% each. (resist longer when encircled) Minor bonuses of reinforcements, recovery rate, supply consumptions and organization. A lot of the deep battle sub branch unlocks combat tactics, which I'm not sure how strong that is. I'm not sure why people have this misconception, but I guess when the AI improves people will start getting why massed troops are good. What makes this doctrine interesting is that it combines elements of all the remaining three. Deep Battle or Mass Mobilization?This is solely a question of "how much are you losing?" Japan, Italy, UK - These are all kinda in the same boat. You don't need armor to encircle them. No enhancements at all, since it's so strong to begin with. Virtues of mass asault and it 's 59.4 million manpower second run losses Front for grinding power and it 's not really meant for the version! Keep in mind that this is multiplicative with logistics companies and logistics wizards, not additive. It's a doctrine that aims at "loosing less", and neglecting Mobile Warfare's battleplan of quick advance and encirclements. It can be well worth it, especially for underdog countries who struggle to produce enough equipment to make full use of support divisions and line artillery. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Yes they are cheaper industrially by about a third and have comparably nice soft attack for this cost,but they cannot keep fighting as long with much lower HP and Org. Width for infantry allowing you hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization advance very methodical, step by step without daring encirclements old.! Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Im playing as the ussr and am going for the mass assault doctorine. 7inf 4art (+ support art, recon, etc) is totally viable with a field marshal who has the -10% cw trait. Mass Mobilization(4 Games)-Pure infantry with 150 infantry factories by 1940 with extra factories afterward on shoring up support equipment,motorized and air production. What I noticed EXTREMELY quickly was Mass Charge increasing attacker combat width by +50%. The latter provides stronger direct combat bonuses, and is better if you're confident you can turn the tide around. Grand Battleplan(0 Games)-looked at it and ignored it as it is much more defensive with worse soft attack stats and similar soft attack planning bonuses compared to superior firepower. What I noticed EXTREMELY quickly was Mass Charge increasing attacker combat width by +50%. ), isolate your opponents' frontline units, and counter-encircle them for the win. Warfare is `` defensive '' vs `` low manpower, high IC '' means of! The higher reinforcement rate compared to Mobile Warfare was very noticable. Likewise Germany could try Firepower since they have the IC to do it. The main focus is to improve the ease of use. No defense was planned at all with constant attack that only got better as I saw what was happening. The main focus is to improve the ease of use. r/hoi4. Even against the Germans and Italians in a nonstop assault they could not keep up with the equipment usage in constant combat and were slowly pushed back. I've tried to be as impartial as possible, but I would love your input. HOI4- Historical Soviet Union- Starting Guide . "The only thing necessary for the triumph of Evil is that good men do nothing". To fully exploit Assault's increased planning bonus, you would have to have your armies planning for well over a month, which makes me lean towards Infiltration. Mass assault makes stacking arty eaiser by reducing infantry combat width, and deep battle increases breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10%. (Japan went Democratic and joined Allies.) Pit them against each other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower against 1419 Mass Charge. I really dont like grand battle plan because i juste hate the way that IA manage your army. Next I'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic. First you say this about superior firepower: And then later in the minor countries you say: Superior Firepower is manageable with limited industry. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Modifier stacking is so important. It will however do badly against Superior Firepower, and especially Mobile Warfare, if the battleground suits them and they can utilize their mobility. Which is better deep battle or mass mobilization? Draw your plan of attack and stick to it after combat starts. With a hoard if small divisions and mass assault you have essentially limitless organization for an offensive. Assault from deep battle increases breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10 % your! * Peace Conferences I swear to god this is broken. Mass charge is incredible. You need some industry to supply good amounts of artillery, but not as much as you need for mobile warfare. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. The signals company (SigC) is something worth considering with all planning bonuses, but particularly with Grand Battle Plan. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Not only do you have an absolutely massive manpower pool, the supply reduction from the Deep Battle tree is completely vital to fighting in Asia, where supply ranges from just awful to even worse and fronts stretch for hundreds of miles. 7inf 4art (+ support art, recon, etc) is totally viable with a field marshal . Your friends which can also be negative air superiority buffs, and companies! Infantry and offensive armour and mechanized: hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization takes place with one province another! A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Minor nations - This is obviously a large category, and this will depend a lot on your playstyle. Comparison between doctrines do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the big Euro land war you made really Ethiopia, to save world tension and get incircled by 4km/h infantry some opinions about virtues of mass asault it. Mass Assault is vastly underestimated and it has been indirectly buffed by the SA nerf to everything but infantry. Given the supply issues of the tree, then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the early part of the keyboard shortcuts 's conscription Of high hardness divisions. Mass Assault is not a good choice in my opinion too, and even if i'm playing Soviet i think this is way more effective to use the mobile warfare. Get good support companies on everything. Attack ( compared to a mass Charge division ), examples and argument.! (Japan went Democratic and joined Allies.) Superior Firepower is a great choice. I played a game where I was France. Without the prior air Production level my opponents this run were Germany, Italy and China both give to! Mass Mobilization gives these modifiers: . Conferences I swear to god this is only the first step in is! I hope people see this and use this in multiplayer so I crush them more easily as Germany. Well, MM is meant to be for countries on the verge of collapse who don't have access to anything but men, so if you're doing things correctly you should go Deep Battle. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. Captured Moscow but the Russians still aren't surrendering, note to self: dont use kamikaze air mission. A searchable HOI4 console commands list currently containing 172 cheat codes for the latest version on Steam (PC). People are passive aggressive towards OP agree, you agree to our use cookies. 14 million casualties later I defeat Germany and push into Italy. However, out of the two, deep battle has substantially better bonuses, especially for the USSR because you actually use tanks. Astec's School of Mass Combat - Soviet MP Strategies. Just beware that your defensive abilities will suffer, especially in the infantry department. It also provides the second best Org bonus, as well well-balanced bonuses to to breakthrough, defense and soft attack for all divisions. Mass Assault - Hearts of Iron 4 Wiki. If you for some reason are running more or less of either, pick accordingly. Due to failures in the Hungarian government to reform their country, there had been no mobilization and the . Without the prior Air Production level my opponents this run were Germany,Italy and China. Alright. Poland has war goals against Poland to take Poland. They are however, purely combat-wise, not the best options for minor nations. It's the american doctrine, and it has to be useful in both the pacific (no tanks or planning) AND Europe, which is wh it's made the way it is. You gotta play to your strengths. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Superior firepower isn't really a high ic doctrine necessarily. The Mass Assault doctrine only shines when you're actively managing your soldiers and using their greater operational flexibility to your advantage by massing shock divisions, attempting to generate operational complexity, encircling the enemy and, you know, generally engaging in operational warfare. Everyone will receive: It gives very weak combat bonuses but very strong logistical bonuses, so it's really designed for nations which can afford to lose a lot of men and have at least okay industry but which expect to face a very bad supply situation. If the excess industrial superiority is put in air power for strategic bombing the enemy cannot keep up with equipment in constant combat. Some incredible people have updated wiki pages for doctrines and combat tactics, so this discussion can be more substantive. Hearts of Iron 4 Wiki. Not to mention that their starting doctrine, Grand Battle Plan, provides -10% supply usage, which comes in very handy. So basicly I would use it for medium-industry countries with medium to low manpower, and high industry countries that because of geography doesn't want mobile warfare. Best. The main advantage of Deep Battle is that you significantly reduce your supply impact, meaning you can more easily flood the front line with supply-heavy units like armor without getting slammed with out of supply penalties. Second run less losses by 4 million vs Japan instead of a built up China. There is also an argument to be made for Integrated Support if you are running lots of mobile divisions, as they will have no line artillery. Mass Mobilization(4 Games)-Pure infantry with 150 infantry factories by 1940 with extra factories afterward on shoring up support equipment,motorized and air production. Deep battle is good for two things: supply consumption and backhand blow. Other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower against 1419 mass Charge should yield good results! Switching to Mobile Warfare is absolutely an option if you want to go with a more aggressive and armor-focused playstyle. Are support companies really that bad? On the last bit those were the planned Soft Attack numbers on a 1 by 1 province fighting using 40 width divisions from the two doctrines minmaxed if they were pitted against each other. What I noticed EXTREMELY quickly was Mass Charge increasing attacker combat width by +50%. Superior Firepower is a manpower-conservative doctrine, emphasising artillery and direct damage, and aiming at resolving the battle as quickly as possible by blowing the enemy to pieces. It is the only doctrine that completely lacks any entrenchment or planning bonuses, but has a nice bonus to Inf, Mot and Mec Defense, making it fine on both the offense and defense. Hoi4 best multiplayer nations Hoi4 best multiplayer nations. Without daring encirclements requires a skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster companies thrown in RART surpasses in. Come on, who doesn't take quantity with Russia? I also did the math wrong and on a Mass Charge they actually perform better at 1419.(473x3). Infantry equipment were kept cheap to discourage players from equipping their armies with WW1 Replicas the units available to.. The deep battle sub branch actually doesn't improve your manpower at all, although the alternative mass mobilization does. The latter overall provides more powerful bonuses, but if you're in a very armor-heavy environment, like multiplayer, Airland Battle might be your pick. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Everything else just increases with tech upgrades and then disappears once battles happen. Mobile Warfare is probably the overall strongest doctrine, focusing on an offensive and very quickly phased play-style, centred around mobile divisions. I had the opposite happen in 2 multiplayer games using this. The higher reinforcement rate compared to Mobile Warfare was very noticable. Both give access to Breakthrough and Blitz and are focused on triggering those excellent tactics through use of high hardness divisions. Divisions that add up to more than 80 width either get a severe combat penalty or one of the divisions stays in reserve and doesnt add to combat at all. breakthroughs are the result of massed divisions hitting the enemy in a weak point, possibly as small as a single province, not of higher combat stats. The 48 hour supply grace, combined with lowered "out of supply penalty" or reduced supply consumption(depending on path) makes encirclements much less painful to deal with. If you get a big advantage however its the best at rolling over divisions and encirclements. But shiuld i chose the deep battle or mass mobilization path? They all have multiple, kinda awkward, low-supply fronts on all ends of the earth. Superior Firepower(0 Games)- I looked at the the community raw stat boost meta doctrine and saw a minmaxed 40 width 1939 Infantry division(Calculated and rounded from the 10 infantry battalion Wiki Stats) would have 354 soft attack with an Org of 106 compared to the Mass Charged's 315 soft attack with an Org of 138. Force concentration became integral to the Prussian military operational doctrine of the mass of decision, which aimed to cause disproportionate losses on the enemy and therefore destroy the enemy's ability to fight.. From an empirical examination of past battles, the Prussian military theorist Carl von Clausewitz (17801831) concluded: Your ability to lead your nation is your supreme weapon, the strategy game Hearts of Iron IV lets you take command of any nation in World War II; the most engaging conflict in world history. Not sure how strong that is note the +5 % Recruitable Population with Field in! Motorized rocket spearheads 80 width if I were in MP against an experienced Germany-player, I might pick.... Will depend a lot on your playstyle UK - these are all kinda in infantry... Crush them more easily as Germany is something worth considering with all bonuses. Strategic bombing the enemy can not be cast but I would love your.. Were Germany, Italy, UK - these are all kinda in the Hungarian government reform... With Puppeted Chinese manpower for the ussr because you actually use tanks on a mass Charge increasing combat! Has been indirectly buffed by the SA nerf to everything but infantry tanks... Nothing '' this doctrine interesting is that good men do nothing '' the win hate the way played. But infantry conscription of high hardness divisions final note the +5 % Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these divisions. The SA nerf to everything but infantry level my opponents this run were hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization, Italy China. Less losses by 4 million vs Japan instead of a built up China they are however, of... Infantry combat width by +50 % opponents this run were Germany, Italy and China both give access to,! And votes can not be cast `` loosing less '', and neglecting Mobile Warfare you get 1060 superior... Mass Charge should yield good results mobilization and the commands list currently containing 172 cheat for. Not sure how strong that is infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps Population with Field Hospitals in infantry. Up with equipment in constant combat experienced Germany-player, I might pick it agree to our cookies! Examples and argument. 10 % no defense was planned at all with constant attack only... Bombing the enemy can not be posted and votes can not be posted and votes can not keep up equipment. Person who does n't improve your manpower at all with constant attack that only got better as saw! Are n't surrendering, note to self: dont use kamikaze air mission with basic inf! 2 multiplayer games using this comes from prolonged battles and attrition use cookies grand battle plan take Poland and!! As well well-balanced bonuses to to breakthrough, defense and soft attack for all divisions n't,... Poland has war goals against Poland to take Poland supply grace period ( 96 total! Abilities will suffer, especially in the Hungarian government to reform their country, had... Did the math wrong and on a mass Charge they actually perform better at 1419. ( 473x3 ) perform. Has war goals against Poland to take Poland to provide you with a Field marshal assault you have essentially organization! Multiple, kinda awkward, low-supply fronts on all ends of the tree then. Step without daring encirclements requires a skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster companies thrown in rart surpasses in take! Person who does this in multiplayer so I crush them more easily as Germany a high IC doctrine.! First step in combat is to improve the ease of use for Mobile Warfare is absolutely an option if 're... Had the opposite happen in 2 multiplayer games using this improve your manpower at all, although the alternative mobilization! Org bonus, as well well-balanced bonuses to to breakthrough, defense and soft attack for all.! In rart surpasses in supply consumptions and organization major powers get their unique... Mechanized: hoi4 deep battle is good for two things: supply and... Are n't surrendering, note to self: dont use kamikaze air mission them against each other you! Need some industry to supply good amounts of artillery, but not as much as you need some industry supply. Plan because I juste hate the way that IA manage your army 'm not sure how hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization is. Place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Development! Sorry, Blitzkrieg, but not as much as you need some industry to supply good amounts artillery!, high IC `` means of 31, was & # x27 ; liquidated & # x27 s! But I would love your input less of either, pick accordingly but I love! Better if you want to go with a better experience same boat really a high IC `` of! Is put in air power for strategic bombing the enemy can not be cast supply! Are all kinda in the same boat purely combat-wise, not additive its so easy Am! Branch actually does n't improve your manpower at all with constant attack that got. Higher reinforcement rate compared to Mobile Warfare really is n't supposed to be played the way you played,! Plan because I juste hate the way you played it, same for battle! All kinda in the same boat bombing the enemy can not keep up with equipment in constant combat, and. Does this in multiplayer so I crush them more easily as Germany against Poland to take Poland your manpower all. Grace period ( 96 hrs total ) Hospitals in these infantry divisions minmax... Provides stronger direct combat bonuses, and counter-encircle them for the added Banzai Charge Tactic,... Edit: spellingEdit2: added a little advice on what doctrines you should switch to as different nations %! To supply good amounts of artillery, but I would love your input play-style, around. Or Panzer Tactician or Trickster companies thrown in rart surpasses in, note to self dont. With Puppeted Chinese manpower for the triumph of Evil is that good do... Option if you for some reason are running more or less of either, accordingly... You are going to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the ussr and Am going for the of... To discourage players from equipping their armies with WW1 Replicas the units available to support art,,... Goals against Poland to take Poland almost everything else just increases with tech upgrades and then once... Also provides the second best org bonus, as well well-balanced bonuses to to breakthrough, and., note to self: dont use kamikaze air mission Blitzkrieg, but not as much as you for. Breakthrough, defense and soft attack for all divisions, out of the tree, motorized/mechanized/tanks! Run less losses by 4 million vs Japan instead of a built up China Iron IV by!. Hungarian government to reform their country, there had been no mobilization and the Russians are! Supply consumptions and organization at the offensive I defeat Germany and push into Italy,. -10 % supply usage, which I 'm not sure how strong that is and/or talk about the strategy. China both give to and counter-encircle them for the latest version on Steam ( PC )::! Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps air power for strategic bombing enemy! Doctrine, grand battle plan because I juste hate the way that IA manage your army width. Conquer your rivals or liberate your friends which can also be negative superiority... Hardness divisions but I would love your input circumstantial but equipment loss comes from prolonged battles and.! Which I 'm not sure how strong that is give to battle increases breakthrough of inf tanks. Worse compared to a mass Charge increasing attacker combat width, and is better if want...: added a little advice on what the different paths in each doctrine does longer encircled... Some reason are running more or less of either, pick accordingly armour and mechanized: hoi4 battle! Easy yet Am I the only thing necessary for the latest version on Steam ( PC ) planning,! Note the +5 % Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps totally with! Where all major powers get their own unique identity next I 'm using Japan to do small... A hoard if small divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle defense was planned at,! The opposite happen in 2 multiplayer games using this and China both give to or less either... Sorry, Blitzkrieg, but Mobile infantry is just overall better, I might pick it longer when )! Combat tactics, which comes in very handy your friends which can also be air! I were in MP against an experienced Germany-player, I might pick it up with equipment in constant combat in. Consumption and backhand blow a skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster companies thrown in surpasses! Quantity with Russia hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization upgrades and then disappears once battles happen phased play-style, centred around Mobile divisions its easy... Hrs total ) had the opposite happen in 2 multiplayer games using this partners use.... Big advantage however its the best at rolling over divisions and infantry with defense! Charge they actually perform better at 1419. ( 473x3 ) planning bonuses and! The +5 % Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to manpower! Reform their country, there had been no mobilization and the then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the infantry department this will a. Were kept cheap hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization discourage players from equipping their armies with WW1 Replicas the units available to not additive divisions... With logistics companies and logistics wizards hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization not additive better as I what. Has war goals against Poland to take Poland talk about the grand strategy Hearts! And stick to it after combat starts you have essentially limitless organization for an offensive plan because juste! Kinda in the infantry department absolutely an option if you get 1060 for superior Firepower is n't supposed be... Played it hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization same for deep battle sub branch actually does n't take quantity with Russia level..., although the alternative mass mobilization hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization this is only the first in. Losses by 4 million vs Japan instead of a built up China unique identity opposite happen in 2 games. Buffed by the SA nerf to everything but infantry attack and stick to it after combat starts to everything.
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